Welcome to a VERY special episode of the podcast… this week I interviewed my first ever GUEST, Spring Washam. Spring is one of my beloved Buddhist teachers, but also a real pioneer in terms of offering entheogens, along with the Buddhist spiritual path. And she’s been an inspiration for me in many ways.
A fellow Californian, Spring grew up in East Long Beach. She began our time together telling of how her father left the family and her mother wasn’t prepared for kids. Add to that poverty and violence and other traumatic episodes and by the time she was a teenager, she was in a deep depression.
Her journey to heal that depression and the traumas of her childhood led her to a book about meditation, which led her to want to understand her mind. Her first dive into Buddhism was when she went on a 10-day Buddhist retreat led by Jack Kornfield in the desert.
“At the end, I went up to this hill and sort of baptized myself, or, you know, ordained myself. And said, I’ll follow these teachings to the end. And I haven’t stopped. I’ve been deeply devoted to Buddhism and these practices of liberation, and all the different traditions I’ve studied in many different traditions and many teachers,” she explained.
Her first altered state experience came in the midst of her new Buddhist practice when a psychologist friend invited her to an ayahuasca ceremony. And, as she said in our interview, “I had a cup of ayahuasca, and within eight hours, I’d understood more about my life than I understood in years of practicing, how I was practicing. And that’s where my journey with plant medicine really began.”
Since then, Spring has spent time in Peru and Costa Rica, studying the plant and the place it has in indigenous culture, and finding ways to translate that respect and reverence here in the United States, where plant medicine is often misunderstood.
During our time together, Spring and I talked all about what she’s learned about plant medicine and altered state experiences in the jungles of South America and how that’s translated to her work here in the United States. We also talked about where all that fits into her own Buddhist beliefs and how she faces opposing views from other Buddhist practitioners.
Here are a few key moments that I want to share with you:
One of the topics we touched on was the struggles that Western society often has with entheogens and plant medicine. Spring and I discussed how our modern, industrialized culture doesn’t really have the space to support and integrate post-journey.
When asked why she believes that is, Spring shared, “The biggest challenge is that we don’t use the word we as much in our culture. We don’t see that we’re in a living system, right? And we’re not.” She goes on to say that when we’re experiencing an altered-state journey, we don’t see ourselves as part of this living web. “I think it’s part of our madness, right? Is this deep separation from Earth and source and God or whatever, Buddha, or whatever you call it.”
This came up again when we spoke of the importance of ceremony in doing this type of work – which is one of the reasons she spent time in Peru in Costa Rica. She said, “This is not a one and done. It’s not going to enlighten you. You have to get up and walk a path. […] You have to be the one to pull yourself up every day and show up for yourself the best you can. Integrate somatics and integrate all these healing modalities.”
In a recent Episode of the podcast, I talked about the ways people can get curious about finding the best practitioner or guide for their own altered-state journeys (that Episode will be linked below in the resources). When I brought this topic up with Spring and asked her what advice she would give to those who are considering their own plant medicine experience, she said the most important thing is for people to be honest with themselves and to look at their own history.
We can ask questions like, am I okay to do this? Do I have a support system?
She goes on to say, “If you don’t [have a support system], then wait until you can join a community where you have a guide, where you have people around you that can hold you and get you back on the right path.
At the end of our time together, I asked Spring if there was anything else she would like to offer to you all.
She said, “One thing that comes to mind is this: Love and compassion. Those really are the medicine. They’re so deeply healing, and they give us the stability to meet the day, right? You know, when people ask me how I can tell if someone’s really “awake” or not, I go, well I can just tell by how kind they are. You know? How am I more loving today? Can I love better?
“I swear, that’s really my practice. Can I love better? Am I more open? And if you find your practice going in a way where you feel more rigid, more shut down, less open, more fixated on yourself, you may be going in the wrong direction with it, right? Your practice should become more tolerant, more open. The whole thing is about opening the layers of loving. We’re not here to perfect ourselves. We’re here to perfect our love. So that’s just howI gauge it all. To me, an awakened person is a person that is loving another being.”
This really is just the tip of the iceberg. We covered so much more about altered-state medicine, how it fits into our spiritual practice, and what it all means in the context of life and death. After all, you know I like to go right for the deep stuff and get to the root of our common human experience, right?
I hope you get a chance to check the full episode out. May it be of benefit to you all.
In this special Episode, we jammed on:
// How we both began working with plant medicine & ayahuasca
// Why we find exploring the medicine’s place in Indigenous culture so important to its uses in Western society
// Why there’s an absence of integration and post-journey support in our industrialized, western society
// The importance of ceremony and community in our healing journey
// Whether altered-state experiences ACTUALLY go against the teachings of Buddhism (and if that even matters)
// Our advice for those who are considering plant medicine on the spiritual path
// Death and the possibility of rebirth…and the implications in journey work
Resources:
// Learn more about Spring Washam (and stay tuned for her 2025 event schedule)
// Follow Spring on Instagram or Facebook
// Check out my previous Episodes on psychedelics and entheogens:
Episode 97: Psychedelics and Spiritual Practice
Episode 153: Psychedelic Exceptionalism
Episode 225: How to Choose a Psychedelic Guide
// Episode 122: Come See for Yourself – Ehipassiko
// If you want to dive more deeply into practices that help create a life of inner and outer freedom, come join me in my NEWEST program, called No Regrets. It’s a deep dive into exploring our own life legacy, the gift of impermanence, intimacy with death + life, and living a life of no regrets.
To get on the waitlist, head over to AdventureMastermind.com. You’ll be the first to know when early registration opens in a few days, with special early bird rates, extra bonuses, and first dibs on the limited-capacity in-person retreat on the Big Island of Hawai’i…and more.
// If you want to dive deeper into this Soul-level work and create a strong foundation for self-coaching, consciousness exploration, and creating a life of freedom, adventure, and purpose, head over to JoinFreedomSchool.com. It’s got everything you need in one place.
// If you’re new to the squad, grab the Rebel Buddhist Toolkit I created at RebelBuddhist.com. It has all you need to start creating a life of more freedom, adventure, and purpose. You’ll also get access to the Rebel Buddhist private group, and tune in every Wednesday as I go live with new inspiration and topics.
// Have you benefited from even one episode of the Rebel Buddhist Podcast? I’d love it if you could leave a 5-star review on iTunes by clicking here.